more feelings for animals -- >> did he think that he would ever be caught? >> i don't think he did. >> why was he called whitey? >> because as a kid he was a tow head. >> blonde hair. >> yeah. >> how was he able to be the master manipulator who managed to have the mafia on this set of puppet strings, the fbi on that set of puppet strings, and control over the neighborhood? >> well, the guy is charismatic, john. i think anybody who's powerful or good at what they do, whether it's politics, the law, tv, it's -- are you charismatsic d. people like you. kevin weeks, his protege said -- >> charlie, you could be running -- >> kevin weeks said to us, if whitey wanted you to like him, you would like him. and he would not give up until you liked him. >> i was fascinating. i thought, god, i wouldn't mind meeting him. >> now, one -- >> we can arrange that. >> thank you, kevin. thank you. we've got to go. i was fascinated by him.